Frank Lucas–Who is the “American Gangster?”
An Interview with Journalist Ron Chepesiuk,
Co-author of Superfly: The True, Untold Story of Frank Lucas, American Gangster
Ron Chepesiuk
Q) Was Frank Lucas the biggest drug dealer in Harlem in the 1970s?
A) Lucas was a big drug dealer in Harlem during the 1970s, but he cannot boast with certainty, as he and his publicists have, that he was the biggest one. At the time, the heroin trade was exploding; the French Connection, fragmenting; and the La Cosa Nostra’s hold on the drug trade, loosening. This opened the drug trade for the rise of several big-time black drug dealers, including Nicky Barnes, Frank Matthews, Robert Stepeney, Harold “Hollywood” Munger, the black Dutch Schultz and Zack Robinson, among others. Each had their time in the criminal sun. So saying one was the biggest of all is like trying to identify who is the greatest baseball player of all time or who is the greatest actor. Any claim will be subject to debate.
Q) Did Frank Lucas ever go to Southeast Asia?
A)Yes, he did, but much later that he claims he did. In an interview Lucas told me he went to Asia in 1969 and 1970. Ike Atkinson, who operated a big heroin trafficking ring from Bangkok to the U.S. from the mid 1960s to the mid 1970s, says Frank did not come to Asia until 1973. I have interviewed DEA agents who were working in Bangkok in the early 1970s and they did not hear of Frank Lucas, nor did they recall having any intelligence information about him. If Lucas was as big as he said he was in Southeast Asia, you figure he would have been on the DEA radar screen. In 1969 or 1970, the La Cosa Nostra dominated the French Connection, controlling about 95 percent of the heroin drug trade. So why would Lucas take risks, go to a foreign environment and try to develop a completely new system of drug distribution?
Q) Did Frank Lucas have a heroin connection in Southeast Asia through Ike Atkinson?
A) According to Atkinson he did and I tend to believe him. After Ike’s partner, Herman Jackson, was busted in ’72 or ‘73, Ike needed a new partner in the U.S, and so he entered into business arrangement with Lucas. Lucas’ claim that he was the one who initiated and developed the Asian heroin connection is false. That dubious distinction goes to Ike Atkinson.
Q) Did Lucas ever put out a contract on Nicky Barnes?
A) According to press and law enforcement reports, Lucas did put a contract on Frank Barnes in 1975 while Frank was incarcerated in New York’s Metropolitan Correction Center. But here we are more than three decades later and the bad blood between the two old drug kingpins is still there. If they ever meet again and get a chance to talk, let’s be sure they won’t be near any lethal weapons.
Q) Did Frank Lucas work for Bumpy Johnson?
A) Lucas says he did and he has made the Bumpy connection a big part of his personal story. I’ve talked to some retired law enforcement officials who knew Bumpy Johnson during the 1950s and 1960s and they can’t recall ever seeing, meeting or hearing of Lucas. I’m pretty sure Lucas worked for Johnson in some capacity, but at this point of time, we have no way of verifying the extent of that relationship.
Q) Did Lucas shoot a big Harlem drug dealer in middle of day?
A) You are referring to Tango, the 270-pound Harlem bully, whom Lucas has said looked like “Mr. Clean.” Frank Lucas says he did kill Tango and I’m sure the incident will be included in the movie. I have not found any source who can verify that the incident happened. It’s very odd, though, that Lucas would admit to murdering a dude named ‘Tango” but refuse to talk about any of the other, readily identifiable individuals he is accused of committing.
Q) How was Lucas busted?
A) Frank was busted in late January 1975. The authorities raided his home in Teaneck, New Jersey, using information supplied by two busted members of the Gambino crime family. I describe this incident in detail in my book, “Superfly: the True, Untold Story of Frank Lucas, American Gangster.” The bust led to a 40-year conviction and was the beginning of the end of Lucas’ big-time criminal career.
Q) Was Frank Lucas a snitch?
A) Yes, he was, although Lucas has refused to admit it. He wants to make the money and get all the glory that comes with being the subject of a Hollywood film, while still being The Man on the street who rappers rap rapturously about. Tough to do when you have violated the Code of the Streets—“ You do the crime, you do the time (and keep your mouth shut).”
Q) Did he cooperate and testify?
A) In responding to the charge of being a snitch, Frank sounds a lot like Bill Clinton in his impeachment hearings when he tried to parse the word “is”. Lucas claims he is not really a snitch because he never took the stand. But he did—in the trial of drug dealer Leroy Butler. His testimony may have led to the arrest and conviction of perhaps 80 to a 100 people, or more.
Q) Did he get busted again?
A) He got busted in 1984 for trying to sell one ounce of heroin for a kilo of cocaine and $13,000. At the trial, Lucas claimed he was still an informant working undercover for the DEA. The problem—no one in the DEA knew anything about Frank’s alleged undercover work, and the jury didn’t buy his story. You won’t see that aspect of Lucas’ story in the movie.
Q) Why did Hollywood decide to do a movie about him and not Nicky Barnes or Frank Mathews?
A) Pure luck. Frank was living in obscurity in New Jersey when Mark Jacobson penned that 2000 New York magazine article about him. If someone in Hollywood had not been looking for the subject of a good script and had not spotted that article, and if Denzel had not agreed to play his character, Frank would, no doubt, still be history, and not on the verge of being transformed into a Hollywood legend.
Q) Who do you think was the Black Godfather of the era?
A) Nicky Barnes. No black drug dealer from the 1970s had a bigger persona. Like the song, Nicky was “Bad, Bad Leroy Brown.” No one from that era, moreover, has a bigger presence in the gangsta culture of today than Mr. Untouchable. Ironically, that may change with the movie “American Gangster” and Lucas’ explosion on the popular scene.
Q) Has Lucas read Nicky’s autobiography, “Mr. Untouchable”?
A)I‘m sure he is aware of the book. Lucas is a control freak, who likes to be on top of things. He may have had somebody read the book to him, though. One law enforcement official whom I interviewed in investigating Frank Lucas believes he may be functionally illiterate. That may have been true at one time, but I’m sure it must have changed. Being able to count all the money you’re making from your resurrection is a good incentive to become literate.
Ron Chepesiuk is the co-author of Superfly: The True, Untold Story of Frank Lucas, American Gangster, (www.franklucasamericangangster.com/) and the author of Gangsters of Harlem, (www.gangstersofharlem.com) Drug Lords: the Rise and Fall of the Cali Cartel (www.ronchepesiuk.com/) and the just released Black Gangsters of Chicago (www.blackgangstersofchicago.com/).
